From a basket of crabs to sisterhood – Milou Deelen & Daan Borrel

My goal, ever since I started designing lingerie over 25 years ago, is to empower women. However, I have noticed -and you might have too- that women tend to bring each other down instead. Gossiping, judging, slut shaming, you name it. Feminist authors Milou Deelen and Daan Borrel noticed it as well, and decided to investigate further. In their brand new book ‘Krabben – woman to woman’ they compare women to a basket full of crabs, trying to climb out of the basket and pushing each other down along the way. Where does the term ‘basket full of crabs’ come from, why do women still do this, and what about men? I had the pleasure to ask them everything.

First, the obvious: what is your book ‘Krabben – woman to woman’ about?

In our book, we investigate why women feel the need to bring each other down, and why they judge each other when they do something that questions the norm- something that women do quite easily. We wanted to know why women, when they feel jealous for example, bring another woman down instead of lifting each other up. Our goal is for women to start liberating each other, by no longer depreciating each other.

What an amazing comparison with the ‘basket full of crabs’. Where did it come from?

The term ‘basked full of krabs’ (krabbenmand effect) originates in the 2nd wave of feminism. Crabs also bring each other down, literally, when one of them tries to climb out of the basket. Thankfully we’re not crabs but people, and we can teach ourselves to change our ways.

What inspired you to write the book?

Something that happened at the Pride, two years ago. We had only just met, and ran into each other by accident at a party at the canals of Amsterdam. Milou was dancing topless and called me, Daan, over to join, and I decided to do so. But it didn’t feel as free as I expected. I was more concerned with my mother and little brothers during those two minutes. Afterwards I questioned Milou’s motives, ‘did she do it to get attention?’, instead of embracing and questioning my own discomfort.

And why did you decide to write the book together?

Our book is about the dynamics between women, between friends, so it felt very natural to write it together. Because even in our collaboration we noticed something familiar; as a woman you often connect to other women based on weakness, instead of based on strength. So you feel more connected by both saying that you look terrible, for example. While we were writing, we did the exact same thing. We kept saying to each other that the other person was such a good writer in comparison to ourselves. But we can all exist next to each other. In our own way.

You and I share the same goal: empowering women, instead of judging each other. Why do so many women still feel the urge to bring each other down?

We think that this is a result of women generally being given less space in society than men. They get less space to be angry, to be horny and to be sexually active, they get less space in business, in politics, in leading positions, and less space to embrace the different aspects of their femininity like their motherhood and menstruation. There is not enough space, so when a woman does take up that space, it feels like a threat and jealousy arises. Which we blame on the other woman.

Do you still catch yourselves judging other women sometimes? What do you do about it?

Absolutely. Especially the past year, while we were writing the book, we have discovered many prejudices of our own. For example posting many pictures of yourself on Instagram, we thought that was really vain. We try to honestly admit and question those prejudices, instead of pushing them away.

How do you deal with other women trying to bring you down?

It depends on the situation. Sometimes we ignore it, sometimes we start a conversation. But the good thing is that we now know where this behavior comes from, so in a way we feel an understanding as well.

Who is/are your inspiration when it comes to female empowerment, and why?

All of the women in the book! Because they taught us how to achieve sisterhood.

The book is called ‘Krabben – woman to woman’. Are men also responsible for this effect, by for example slut shaming? And what can men do to contribute to female empowerment?

Men are definitely responsible as well, and we do not wish to claim that this is a women-only thing, but in the book we do focus only on women. The problem is that women are judged by both men and women, men are usually only judged by other men. To help, men could start giving women more space.

Can you give us a sneak peek of the book: how do we get out of the basket full of crabs? What is the first step for every woman, to eventually change the overall mindset?

Be aware of your own behavior! If you say something very unnecessary and judgy about another woman, ask yourself: why do I think/feel/say this? Our book is packed with a LOT of specific, good tips to get out of the basket, so definitely read it if you believe in sisterhood!

Ready for your next step towards sisterhood? ORDER THE BOOK HERE.

* the book is written in Dutch.